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, foreign policy tends to either stain or illuminate a president's legacy. time will tell which foreign policy position will define the obama years. joining us to discuss from washington is former assistant secretary of state and professor at george washington university, professor pj crowley. professor, thank you for joining us. >> hello. >> pj as we talk about the legacy of the obama doctrine, vis-a-vis our war on terrorists drones. the attacks were motivated to do what they did by the wars in iraq and afghanistan. i'll quote a little bit from that story. the 19-year-old suspect in the boston marathon bombings has told interrogators that the american wars in iraq and afghanistan, motivated he and his brother to carry out the attack. what do you make of that, pj? >> i'm not surprised at all that has been a motivator for jihadists around the world, particularly the u.s. invasion of iraq in 2003. so this just continues a theme, and it's not even unique to the united states. faisal shazad, the times square bomber, said he was motivated by the ongoing drone campaign in pakistan. >> wes, as
of charges that becomes a big foreign policy problem. that's one of the reasons why the state department was so opposed to the waterboarding under colin powell. >> exactly. to have it labeled -- so then you get into the territory of were crimes committed? and what kind of future implications there are for that. >> briefly, before i let you go. we do want to talk about it in more detail, the book. the appreciate now to move the program from the cia back to where many say it afc belonged in the military where there could be more oversight. what you've uncovered is the extent of secret relationships with pakistan, things that have never been reported, never been revealed, i guess, to other than the intel gens community? >> i think when you look at the history of the secret war since 9/11, there's so much that's gone on in the shadows that we have not known about and not certainly told to the public or told to congress. as you said, pressure is building to become more transparent. president obama set in the state of the union there would be more transparency, and we'll see what happens. >> t
think about in modern history any time there's been an attack by an immigrant or foreign born national in this country, it directly affected immigration policy. in 1993, the bombing led to the 1996 immigration overhaul which kicked a lot of immigrants off welfare and tightened up a lot of things there. after 9/11 there was a lot of different culture about immigration changing entirely. we had books defendi ining internme internment. even tknow there's no connectio, it will affect things. >> let's play sound from senator dick durbin. a member of the gang of eight. >> the worst thing we can do is nothing. if we do nothing leaving 11 million people in the shadows not making borders safer, not having information that comes from employment and these visa holders, we will be less safe in america. immigration reform will make us safer. >> victoria, what's your take on this? what's this going to mean for immigration reform? >> it absolutely will make us safer. we'll see millions more dollars going into border enforcement. one of the key provisions is we'll have an effective visa entry and exit
is defined, i don't think it's just who the individual is, if they are a foreign national -- >> or a group of individuals. >> -- or a group of individuals, it's the way which that person then initially directly connects to our policy. >> do you think that's right with respect to law enforcement, do you think the division between the timothy mcveigh's of the world and muhammads of the world? >> i think that it doesn't really. i mean, i believe -- this is from my experience, you cannot and should not get tunnel vision looking for a specific, you know, because somebody has a particular faith, they pray five times a day, therefore, it's an international terrorism versus a timothy mcveigh type. we have seen so many cases where you have -- >> let me just say, it could be a left wing terrorist, we literally know nothing. someone who is mad at his or her ex-spouse who happened to be working the medic tent. >> what you need to focus on is the activity, the race, religion, you know, all of that really is irrelevant when it comes to you have to be able to prove the activity isn't furtherance of terro
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